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Author Topic: Weapon Classes  (Read 10711 times)
Major Diarr
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« on: March 09, 2008, 08:25:26 AM »

It will probably keep things simpler if there are different weapon classes that are applied to different ships, instead of having custom weapons for every ship. I know this is nothing new, every game does this. The difference in my idea is that the weapons should overlap ship classes more and I hope that makes balancing simpler.

Federation Arrays
  • Type 14 (System Defense) - 10000 DP/s
  • Type 13 (Surface to Orbit) - 2000 DP/s
  • Type 12 (Station Class) - 1000 DP/s
  • Type 10 (Big Starships IE Enterprise-D, Enterprise-E, Akira, Nebula Class) - 200 DP/s
  • Type 9 (Small Starships IE Voyager, Sabre Class, Norway Class, Steamrunner Class) - 100 DP/s
  • Type 8 (Data's Scout from Insurection) - 20 DP/s
  • Type 7 (Shuttles) - 4 DP/s
Federation Pulse Phasers
  • Type 9 (Defiant) - 18.75 DP per pulse
  • Type 7 (Shuttles IE Federation Fighter, Type 18) - 1.5 DP per pulse
Federation Torpedoes
  • Micro Photon Torpedo - 1.5 DP
  • Photon Torpedo - 75 DP
  • Quantum Torpedo - 200 DP

Cardassian Weapons
  • Galor Class Phaser Cannon - 240 DP/s
  • Galor Class Phaser Bank (Main Armament of the Hideki Class Cardassian Pursuit Vessel) - 60 DP/s
  • Photon Torpedo - 160 DP
  • Plasma Torpedo - 500 DP

Klingon Disruptor Cannons
  • Station
  • Class 14 (Neg'Var Pimary, Huge Fixed Pulse Cannons) - 500 DP per pulse
  • Class 12 (Vor'Cha Primary, Neg'Var secondary) - 198 DP per pulse
  • Class 11 (Bird of Prey Primary, Pulse Cannons) - 49.5 DP per pulse
  • Class 10 (Modified K'Tinga Secondary, Heavy Shuttles, Light Pulse Emitters)
  • Class 9 (Shuttle Pulse Disruptor)
  • Class 7 (Work Bee Pulse Disruptor. Yes, They Arm Their Work Bees. Because I Say So.) Wink [/b][/u]
    • Class 6 (Mounted Anti-Material Disruptor Cannon)
    • Class 5 (Two Klingon Wide Beam Disruptor Cannon)
    • Class 4 (Klingon Portable Anti-Vehicle Disruptor Cannon)
    • Class 3 (Disruptor Sniper Rifle)
    • Class 2 (Disruptor Rifle)
    • Class 1 (Disruptor Pistol)
    Klingon Torpedo
    • Photon Torpedo - 90

    Romulan Disruptor Weapons
    • Plasma Torpedo - 3000 DP at full charge
    • Valdor Pulse Cannon - 200 DP per shot
    • D'Derdiex Beam - 300 DP/s
    • Photon Torpedo - 38

    Dominion Phased Polaron Weapons (dual mode beam/pulse)
    • Phased Polaron Weapon Heavy - 1300 DP per shot
    • Phased Polaron Weapon Medium - 325 DP per shot
    • Phased Polaron Weapon Light - 65 DP per shot
    • Ultritium Concussion Shells (slow, horribly short ranged, but powerful) - 160 DP

    Breen Weapons
    • Pulse Weapon -  61 DP per shot
    • Energy Dissipater - Momentarily turns off all systems on impacted ship
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 11:30:34 PM by Major Diarr » Logged
Krešimir Špes
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« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2008, 07:16:07 PM »

cool :)
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« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2008, 07:53:40 PM »

Thanks.:) Should I just give the Klingons weapon Classes, as other games do? If so, I'll split the list into Banks (beam emitters and beam cannons) and Pulse Cannons.

The Klingon list has ended up much more complicated than the Federation list, which feels like the correct approach for them.
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« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2008, 08:57:33 PM »

it would be great to provide comparison information of all weapons, on some scale, eg phaser type 10 inflicts 100 units of damage per second whilst phaser mark 8 inflicts 8. same goes for torpedoes and disruptors, eg, one distruptor inflicts 20 units of damage per hit, and a torpedo does 500.

in a same manner, we can design the shields and hull  capaity, eg. defiants shields can stand 1000 damage points, whilst bird of prey can withstand 500 (on each shield) etc.
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« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2008, 11:36:35 PM »

I can do that too.  If two ships were sitting across from each other, the battle should last just a couple minutes. Movement will make it take a lot longer. Does that sound good?
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« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2008, 06:22:04 AM »

I've assembled a new list of observations of episodes for figuring out absolute or relative ship strength. If anyone has anything to add, please post your information, reference images and video clips are appreciated.
KEY:
survives - appears to be or is functioning without any damage
disabled - appears non-functional, or to have lost control to various degrees
destroyed - appears to have or has blown up


Dominion
Dominion Bug/Fighter
- 2 beams from Galaxy - survived - "The Jem'Hadar"
- 1 beams from Galaxy - survived - "The Jem'Hadar"
- 6 beams from Runabout - survived - "The Jem'Hadar"
- 3 Torpedoes from DS9 - three times - destroyed - Call to Arms
- 1 beam from DS9 - destroyed - Call to Arms
- 3 Volleys from a Bird of Prey - destroyed - Call to Arms
-- First two break a wing off, second two make small explosions, third two blow the ship up.
- 5 Volleys of four shots each from Defiant - destroyed - "Sacrifice of Angels"
- 2 torpedoes from DS9 - destroyed - "Call to Arms"
- 4 volleys from Bird of Prey - disabled - "Tears of the Prophets"
-- #1-3 volleys - explosion
-- #4 volley - possibly ineffective
- 1 beam from DS9 - glancing - disabled - "Call to Arms"
-- Second shot - destroyed
- 2 volleys from Defiant - destroyed - "The Die is Cast"
- 4 volleys from Defiant - 2 additional volleys after major explosion - destroyed - "The Die is Cast"
- 4 volleys from Defiant - destroyed - "The Die is Cast"
- 1 beam from Miranda - survives - "The Die is Cast"
- 3 volleys from Bird of Prey - destroyed - "Favor the Bold"
- 4 volleys from Defiant - destroyed - "Favor the Bold"
- 6 Quantum Torpedoes from Defiant - destroyed - First volley broke wing off, second volley causes two small explosions, third volley blew the ship up - "Valiant"
- 1 torpedo warhead on a spatial torpedo fired from Defiant - destroyed - "Starship Down"

Federation
Defiant Class "Escort"
- 13 volleys of four shots each in 3.25 seconds - Longest unbroken duration of fire - "The Die is Cast"

- 1 beam Dom Fighter - All Dom ships in battle scene are Dom Fighters, making otherwise unknown attacks' origins known - survives - "The Die is Cast"
-- Unknown: "Shields at 80%"
- 9 beams Dom Fighter - survives - "The Die is Cast" - continued
-- If that's the case, then the ship should have -100% shields.
- 8 beams from Dominion Fighter - survives - "A Call to Arms"
- 23 torpedoes/bursts from Breen warship to bare hull - destroyed - "The Changing Face of Evil"
-- Disabled by Breen energy dissipater on first shot - unknown number of conventional shots to disable Defiant.
-- We see only a few shots but there are hull shaking and a thrumming sounds that happen several times more, adding to 15 hits. This makes sense, because the amount of hull damage we see at first in comparison to just before the Defiant blows up, doesn't add up if there aren't more hits of equal strength to the first weapon impacts.
-- There are 8 thrums without any hull shaking.

- "The Search", take 1
- 50 misc. from Dominion Fighters - survived - The Search
-- 1 beam from Dominion Fighters with shields down - there were only Dominion fighters in the scene so all attacks came from them - The Search
-- 16 beams from Dominion Fighters - there were only Dominion fighters in the scene so all attacks came from them - The Search
-- 17 beams from Dominion Fighters - lost main power=shields down - The Search
-- 6 beams from Dominion Fighters - Inertial Dampeners down, helm control failing - The Search
-- 10 beams from Dominion Fighters - The Search
-- The Search - Battle Conclusion
--- 33 Dom Fighter beams to shields
--- 17 Dom Fighter beams to hull
--- survived

- "The Search", take 2
6 beams from Dominion Fighters
10 beams possible hits or misses
14 beams
16 beams (Kira: We've lost main power.)
10 beams (Romulan Woman: Main Power is offline. Shields have collapsed.)
12 beams
- Conclusion
-- 36-46-56(Main power down/shields down)
-- 12-22 hits to the hull
-- 58-68 hits in total from Dominion Fighters
--- disabled (Odo: The last time I saw the Defiant, she was dead in [space].)

"Defiant" - will be organized better later. Has some Keldon info.
- (Unknown: Took six hits on the port shields. There's been some minor damage to the outer hull but all systems are operational.) - In reference to shots taken by Cardassian ships, probably Galor Class.
- (Thomas Riker: With this ship, it will be a sure fight, I promise you that.) In reference to the 3 Keldon Class ships ahead of him but not the ten stated, by Kira, to be behind him.
- 7 main beams from a Keldon - (Unknown: We've been hit on our starboard shield.)(Unknown: Shields holding.)
- (Thomas Riker: Quantum Torpedoes, full spread. Fire.) 4 quantum torpedoes fired, the first two explode in proximity, the second two hit the tail and appear to disable power and maneuvering. (Helmswoman: Their defense systems are off line and they lost main power.)
- (Three more cruisers just arrived in the Orian system. That makes five ships ahead and ten behind.) Riker still wanted to fight but he realized it would just get his crew killed to fight that many ships.

- 1 volley from BoP - had no previous damage - (Dax: Shields are holding) - survives - "The Way of the Warrior"
- 1 torpedo from BoP - survives - "The Way of the Warrior"
- 4 unknown from BoP - survives (Worf: Sir, restricting our fire to their engines has not proven effective. Sisko: Very well, target at your descretion.) - "The Way of the Warrior"
- 1 beam from bow of Vor'Cha - survives - "The Way of the Warrior"
- 1 unknown from unknown, probably bow of Vor'Cha - survives - "The Way of the Warrior"
- 3 beam from bow of Vor'Cha - survives - "The Way of the Warrior"
- 1 unknown from unknown, probably bow of Vor'Cha - (Dax: You were right Mr. Worf, the modulated tractor beam is deflecting some of the Klingon disruptor fire. Worf: Disruptor's effectiveness at 50%.) This seems to refer specifically to aiming ability, not weapon strength. After this shot, the shields have been dropped to beam in Cardassians - survives - "The Way of the Warrior"
- 1 unknown from unknown, probably bow of Vor'Cha - (Dax: Ablative armor holding. Worf: Klingon ships are closing, armor on the port side is losing integrity.) - survives - "The Way of the Warrior"
- 4 unknown from unknown - (Worf: Klingon have closed to point blank range.)(Dax: Ablative armor has failed.) - survives - "The Way of the Warrior"
- 1 unknown from unknown - (Sisko: Raise Shields) *boom* (Worf: Shields up) Unknown if shields went up just as or just after the weapon hit - survives - "The Way of the Warrior"
- 4 beam from bow of Vor'Cha - survives - "The Way of the Warrior"

- 7 misc. from Cardassian Defense Station - survived - "Tears of the Prophets"
-- 2 beams from Cardassian Defense Station
-- 5 torpedoes from Cardassian Defense Station

- 12 pulses from Dominion Battleship - disabled - "Valiant"
-- exploded soon after crew escaped in life pods

- (Nog: Shields at 30%.) - "Favor the Bold"
- 6 beams from Dominion Fighter - survives - "Favor the Bold"
- 1 beams from Dominion Fighter, off screen - (Nog: Shields down to 20%) - "Favor the Bold"
-- That's seven beams to drop 10% off the Defiant's shields. Going by this alone, it should take 70 Dominoin Fighter beam shots to down the Defiant's shields from 100%.
-- The Defiant was acting as a decoy throughout.

- 1 beam from Dom Fighters - survived - "starship Down"
- 4 beams from Dom Fighters - (Worf: Shields at 60%) They were also in a gas giant. - survived - "starship Down"
- 10 beam from Dom Fighters - survived - "starship Down"
-- 5 shots in 6 seconds.
-- 3 second dely then 2 shots in 2 seconds
-- 2 second delay then 3 shots.

Federation Fighter
- 1 full shot from Galor secondary weapon - destroyed - "Sacrifice of Angels"
- 1 half shot from Galor secondary weapon - survives - "Sacrifice of Angels"
-- second half shot - destroyed
- 1 pulse/torpedo from Dominion Cruiser - destroyed - "Sacrifice of Angels"

Runabout
- 5 pulses from Dominion Fighter - survived - "The Jem'Hadar"
- 3 beams from Dominion Fighter - survived - "In Purgatory's Shadow"
- 2 beams from Dominion Fighter - destroyed - "The Ship"
-- #1 beam dropped shields, #2 destroyed the runabout.

Miranda Class
- 2 beams from Galor Main Weapon - possibly disabled - "The Die is Cast"
- 14 beams from Cardassian Defense Station - disabled - "Tears of the Prophets"
-- #1-8 beams from Cardassian Defense Station - disabled
-- #9-14 beams from Cardassian Defense Station - appear to do no additional damage but sound as if they're doing damage

Galaxy Class
- 7 shots from D'Deridex in 6 seconds, shields down by 70% - survived - "Tin Man"
-- 6 shots in 4.5 seconds and a 7th one second later.
- 6 misc. from Cardassian Defense Station - survived - "Tears of the Prophets"
-- 3 torpedoes from Cardassian Defense Station - survived
-- 3 beams from Cardassian Defense Station - survived

- 10 torps and 11 pulses from Bird of Prey to hull- survives except for eventual, although not rapidly occurring, warpcore breach. - Star Trek: Generations

Sovereign Class
Nemesis Battle - It should be noted that Shinzon did not want the Enterprise-E, E-E, destroyed and was targeting specific systems and spreading damage out, rather than concentrating it on one spot, as he did with the two Romulan ships.
11 pulses (Shinzon: Target their shields and weapons, I don't want them destroyed)
21 pulses
4 pulses (Riker: Get the Shields online Geoardi.)(Shinzon: I can clearly destroy you at any time.)
7 torps
5 pulse (Data: Aft Shields down to 40%)(Riker: Keep our bow on the Skimitar, auxilery power to shields.)
7 pulses
2 torpedoes (Data: We're losing structural integrity on decks 12-17, sections 4-10.)
4 misc
3 torps (Shinzon: Prepare a boarding party, bring me, Picard! Target all shield coordinates, Beta Three. All disruptors, FIRE!)
4 pulse Might have hit
2 torps Might have hit
2 pulses
2 torps, 1 misc (Data: Captain, we've lost ventral shielding on deck 29.)
8 misc
4 torpedoes (Bridge gets a nice new window) (Torpedoes depleted and phasers at 4%.)

Akira Class
- 4 misc. from Cardassian Defense Station - destroyed - "Tears of the Prophets"
-- had previous damage similar to the Galaxy's torpedo damage
-- 2 torpedoes from Cardassian Defense Station
-- 2 beams from Cardassian Defense Station
- 5 beams from Cardassian Defense Station - disabled/destroyed - "Tears of the Prophets"

Excelsior
- 3 misc. from misc. - disabled - "Tears of the Prophets"
-- 2 beam from Cardassian Defense Station
-- 1 hull piece from destroyed Akira - this appears to be what actually disabled the ship
- 1 beam from Cardassian Defense Station - disabled - "Tears of the Prophets"

Shuttle from ST: Insurrection
4 single shots from mission scout (Data's ship)
3 double shots from mission scout
Fired Tachyon Burst at Data's ship to reset shield harmonics and beam him out but Data activated a transporter inhibitor.
7 off screen shots from mission scout
-- survived

Cardassians
Galor Class Cruiser/Destroyer (Before the Dominion were a full threat, the Galor was called a cruiser. After the Dominion came it was called a destroyer.)
- Secondary Weapon 1 s duration - "Sacrifice of Angels"

- One volley of torpedoes (# of torpedoes unknown) from the U.S.S Phoenix (Nebula Class) - destroyed - "The Wounded"
- 9 shots from five Federation Fighters - disabled - "Sacrifice of Angels"
- 3.8 seconds of continuous fire from 2 Galaxy Class ship, maintaining at most two beams between them for most of the duration - twice only one beam is firing briefly - disabled  - "Sacrifice of Angels"
- 12 BoP(?) shots and a Klingon torpedo - destroyed - "Sacrifice of Angels"
- 2 torpedoes from DS9 - survives - "Call to Arms"
- 1 torpedo from DS9 in various instances - survives - "Call to Arms"
- 6 vollies from BoP - had previous damage and before we see these shots Gul Dukat says [Shields are failing]  - survives - "The Way of the Warrior"
- 6 vollies from BoP - survives - "The Way of the Warrior"
- 2 unknown from BoP - survives (Dukat: Our engines are gone, our shields are down, and we have no weapons to speak of.) - "The Way of the Warrior"
-- That's 12 to 14 shots take down their remaining shields.
- [Dax: Dukat's ship is under fire, I don't know how much longer they can hold out.] - survives - "The Way of the Warrior"
- 9 volleys from Bird of Prey in roughly 3 seconds - survives - "The Way of the Warrior"
- Last we see the particular Galor in "The Way of the Warrior" it has somewhat large sparking fires and without being fired on blows up just as the Defiant leaves.

Keldon Class Cruiser
- 3 beams from Dominion Fighter - destroyed - "The Die is Cast"

- 13-15 volleys from Defiant in 3 seconds - only 3 volleys at the very end appear to actually hit - The Keldon being a cruiser is mentioned at least once in the episode. - (Unknown: Direct hit on the Cruiser's port nacelle. Their shields down by 30%.), there is a significant explosion on the last hit that causes the Keldon to veer out of control. - "Defiant"
--  Each volley did 10% damage to the shields, assuming it was only 3 volleys that hit.
- (Thomas Riker: Quantum Torpedoes, full spread. Fire.) 4 quantum torpedoes fired, the first two explode in proximity, under the ship, knocking it around a bit. The second two hit the tail and knock the ship hard. (Helmswoman: Their defense systems are off line and they lost main power.)
-- Knocking main power out is lucky, then again they might have knocked the shields out and get to power that way but if we take it as all equal, then the Quantum torpedoes were 2.5X stronger than the Defiant's phaser volleys. That doesn't even take into account that the first hit was in proximity by several tens of meters, which would greatly reduce its damage.
- (Gul Dukat: Those are faster than any Keldon Class ships I've ever seen) In reference to the Obsidian Order ships at warp chasing the Defiant.

Hideki Class Patrol Vessel
- 3 Volleys of four shots each from Defiant - destroyed - "Sacrifice of Angels"
- 2 Volleys of four shots each from Defiant - disabled - "Sacrifice of Angels"
- 1 beam from DS9 - glancing blow - disabled - "Call to Arms"

Cardassian Defense Station
Shields Down
- 6 Quantum Torpedoes - destroyed - Tears of the Prophets
- 2 phaser beams from Excelsior - destroyed - Tears of the Prophets
- 2 phaser beams from unknown - survived - Tears of the Prophets
- 7 shots misc. and various - Destroyed - Tears of the Prophets
-- 6 Volleys from Defiant
-- 1 Romulan Torpedo
- 9 green torpedoes (Romulan) - explosion - disabled or destroyed - Tears of the Prophets
- 4 green torpedoes (Romulan) - survived - Tears of the Prophets
Shields Dropped
- 2 beams from Excelsior Class - destroyed - Tears of the Prophets
-- #1 beam seems to hit a shield
-- #2 beam seems to hit bare hull as the station's systems shutdown from sabotage
- 3 torpedoes from Galaxy Class - destroyed - Tears of the Prophets


Klingons
Neg'Var
- 1 torpedo from DS9 - survived - Way of the Warrior

Vor'Cha Class Attack Cruiser
Three quarters of a second shot with tenth to twentieth of a second delay before next shot. Two shots in a row seen.  - Way of the Warrior

- 2 torpedo from DS9 - destroyed - Way of the Warrior
-- It can be assumed off screen damage lead to this event
- Unknown by unknown from Cardassian Defense Station - disabled/destroyed - Tears of the Prophets

- 1 torpedo from DS9 - survived - Way of the Warrior
- 1 torpedo from DS9 - survived - Way of the Warrior
- 5 torpedo from Cardassian Defense Station - survived - Tears of the Prophets

K'Tinga
Half second beam shot with half second delay before next shot. Or tenth second shot with tenth second delay, three in a row. Two half second shots seen in a row. - Way of the Warrior

- 5 torpedo from DS9 - destroyed - Way of the Warrior
- 1 bow, 1 port nacelle, 3 ventral starboard main hull. The first causes an explosion the size of the bow hull, the second causes none, the third and fourth causes explosions as large as the aft hull, and the fifth completely passes through the hull without exploding.

Bird of Prey
- 2 volleys of two bolts each from other Bird of Prey to presumably unshielded hull - destroyed - Apocalypse Rising
- 1 beam from DS9 - destroyed - Way of the Warrior
-- Kira: "Eight Klingon ships destroyed, several heavily damaged."
- 1 torpedoes from Cardassian Defense Station - destroyed - Tears of the Prophets
- 3 torpedoes from Cardassian Defense Station - disabled - Tears of the Prophets
- 4 volleys from Defiant - Destroyed - "The Way of the Warrior"
- 5 volleys from Defiant - Survives - "The Way of the Warrior"
- 1 torpedo from Ds9 - destroyed - Way of the Warrior
- 1 torpedo from Ds9 - destroyed - Way of the Warrior

Romulans
D'Deridex
- 17 beams from Dominion Fighters - disabled - The Die is Cast
- 5 shots misc. from Cardassian Defense Station - survived - Tears of the Prophets
-- 2 torpedoes from Cardassian Defense Station
-- 3 beams from Cardassian Defense Station
- 4 beams from Cardassian Defense Station - inconclusive - Tears of the Phrophets
-- the beams appeared to do no additional damage
-- unmoving and non-firing throughout entire frame - disabled previous to scene start
-- had previous damage similar to, but not the same as, the previous D'Deridex - they are different ships

Valdore
Nemesis Battle (Two Valdore present, one Green - the Valdore - one Brown - unknown name.)
1 misc. hit Green
4 pulses Green
2 Brown
5 Brown
2 Brown
7 pulses (Wing Breaks on Brown Warbird - disabled - wing hits Enterprise-E on port edge of saucer and nose of port nacelle - Minor computer disruption and Data: Forward Shields down to 10%)
17 torpedoes (to ventral center of hull of green Valdore (actual Valdore) - disabled

Brown took 17 hits
Green took 22 hits

Scimitar - I wanted to put these stats under the Sovereign but placing it here fits with the rest of the organization better.
Nemesis Battle
Sovereign, Shots Fired

1:11:21
Geordie: Warp Drive disabled with first shot, We only have Impulse, captain.

1:12:22 - Phaser fire engaged
22 beams
1:12:26 - Phaser fire disengaged

- 3 torpedoes - from top aft of saucer
- 3 torpedoes - from aft

1:13:02 - Phaser fire engaged
9 beams
1:13:09 - Phaser fire disengaged

1:13:10 - Battle Interlude
- no fighting
1:17:46 - Battle Restarts

1:17:57  Phaser fire engaged
5 beams
1:18:04  Phaser fire disengaged

1:18:16  Phaser fire engaged
5 beams
1:18:19  Phaser fire disengaged

- 10 torpedoes

1:18:48  Phaser fire engaged
3 beams
1:18:50  Phaser fire disengaged

1:19:40 Valdore fires
-21 pulses
1:19:58 Valodre stops firing

1:22:21
- 6 Quantum torpedoes
1:22:28

1:22:33
Picard: Fire at will.
phasers - I believe phaser fire continued from this point without interuption until the end of the battle.
- 3 Q torps
- 3 torps

1:23:00
- 3 torps
- 2 torps

1:26:20 - Ship to Ship battle definitely over
Data: We've exausted our compliment of photon torpedoes. Phasers are down to 4%, sir.


P = Phaser fire
nP = no Phaser fire

4s P - 22, 5.5 P/s
26s nP
7s P - 9, 1.28 P/s
4:26s nP - no fighting
7s P - 5, .71 P/s
12s nP
3s P - 5, 1.66 P/s
29s nP
2s P - 3, 1.5 P/s
3:43s nP
3:47 P - 292.3, 1.29 P/s

average P/s is 1.29 P/s

Max P 7 s
average P 4.6 s
Max nP 29 s
average nP is 22.3 s

P 5 s
nP 20 s


Breen
Breen Ship
4 quantum torpedoes from Defiant - destroyed - The Changing Face of Evil
8 volleys of four bolts each from Defiant - hull damaged but survived - The Changing Face of Evil
« Last Edit: August 20, 2008, 03:25:14 AM by Major Diarr » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2008, 03:05:39 PM »

Damn, josh, that's some really neat work! :)
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« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2008, 10:04:37 PM »

It's what I do, Kreso. Obsess over details.:lol: Now I just have to do my other thing, find the connections between as many things (ships) as possible to see where they stand relative to each other and how it all works.
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« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2008, 07:53:59 AM »

There is one conclusion I can state definitively for almost all Star Trek ships:
- as size goes down defenses appear to drop drastically. The only exception so far is the Defiant Class.

Other conclusions, some of which are more tentative are:
- in comparison, as size goes down firepower seems to barely drop.
- the Bird of Prey might have slightly more pulse firepower per volley than the Defiant but it could be a matter of good positioning by the Bird of Prey in the particular scene.
- the Defiant has been observed to fire more volleys at an unbroken rate than any other ship.

Speculation and guessing:
- I would say the beams that disable the Mirandas in Sacrifice of Angels are the main weapons of the Galor Class Destroyer and that it does only take two full shots.
- it took 3 DS9 torpedoes to destroy a Dominion Fighter, 3 and 5 volleys of Bird of Prey fire to destroy and disable a Dominion Fighter respectively, and usually four volleys of Defiant Class fire to destroy a Dominion Fighter. My conclusion would that that 1 DS9 torpedo, 1 BoP volley, and 1 Defiant Volley are all equal. Considering it took what we might assume are 12 BoP volleys and 1 Klingon torpedo, I would say it takes 13 Defiant volleys to destroy a Galor Class Destroyer.
- continuing with the guessing, you could say the damage the Galaxy Class ships did to the Galor is the same as the damage described above, it's really a stretch, though. But it does work if we want to consider just damaged enough to be out of action to be the same as destroyed. Going with that, 6.8, let's make that 7, seconds of Galaxy Class fire is equal.
- The BoP firepower is higher because it takes it three volleys to kill a Dom Fighter and four vollies for the Defiant.

- D'Deridex - 17 shots at 86 damage puts its total at 1462 HP. Those 17 shots are from "The Die is Cast" S3. That means the shield piercing ability of poloron weapons hadn't been stopped yet, in fact not until, "The Ship" S5. So all of those were hull shots and the ship didn't explode but was still heavily damaged. So let's round up and say Hull: 1500, probably more if not for the obvious system failure of some sort. That ablative armor of the Defiant is super strong to be up near the D'Deridex like that.

- I seem to remember something about the Defiant being twice as powerful as a normal ship its size. If we take volume to equal shield/power output and half it's volume and divide the volume of the D'Deridex, we get 842 time the volume of the Defiant. Going with the shield strength of 2800 HP for the Defiant, that would be 2357600 HP for the D'Deridex shields. :lol: However, 3 minutes of continuous fire wouldn't be bad...

A shield of 36,000 HP would last about three minutes under continuous bombardment for 200 DP/s. Then again, I'm just making stuff up here so it might as well be balanced for gameplay and since this is going to be about action, deaths should be relatively quick. Anywhere from a half minute to a minute might feel long and those shield HP are spread over four arcs, rather than being one arc, so that may or may not slow things. I'm cutting this to a third. 12,000 HP for the D'Deridex shields and that leaves room for significantly more powerful ships like the Dominion Battleship. We'll see how it works in gameplay, it might not since the Defiant's shields are only four times weaker if 12,000 is used.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2008, 05:34:12 AM by Major Diarr » Logged
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« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2008, 11:29:17 AM »

great work so far :)

so, basicly, we'd need all ship and weapon information in the following format:

SHIP
hull=10000
shield=5000 (per shield, each ship has 4 shields, just like tnz1)

WEAPON
type=beam|pulse|torpedo
damage=3000 # for beams its damage per second, and for projectiles its damage per impact

maby we could also make a damage range, eg. a torpedo scores a random damage between 3000 and 3500 ?
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« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2008, 04:43:43 PM »

Thanks, that should be a good place to start.

If you could throw in a blast intensity calculator for proximity explosions, that would be awesome. I know, that would definitely be extra programing in comparison to a proximity damage value. Anyway, think about it, here's a site with such a calculator to hopefully give you ideas.

"The calculator divides the energy released by the surface area of a sphere with a radius equal to the distance from the explosion.  The result is the amount of energy from the bomb that would strike one square meter of surface area at that distance."
http://www.babtech-onthe.net/calculator ... lator1.htm
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« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2008, 12:41:52 PM »

sounds cool Smiley
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« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2008, 12:42:31 AM »

I'll need a more in depth description then. How's this?

Area effect damage code.
The area effect damage code is for attacks that either explode in proximity or on contact with their target, as apposed to delivering all of their Attack Points into the the target.

Attack Points are divided by the surface area of a sphere with the radius equal to the distance from the explosion to a target. The result is the amount of Attack Points that would strike one square meter of surface area. That value is then multiplied by the surface area exposed to the the attack.

Ships have four shield quadrants, radius can be determined by calculating one radius to the center of each of three out of four shield quadrant arcs not blocked by the hull. Only a maximum of three radii are required per ship.

There can be multiple targets per explosion. Any target not blocked by another ship's shields or hull can have radius measures drawn to it.

Surface area is determined by determining a line perpendicular to the radius, between the furthest edges of the target ellipse visible from the point of explosion. Surface area is divided by 1/3 per shield arc.

Unshielded hull works just like shields, except all of the Attacks Points are subtracted from one Hit Point meter.

Area effect damage fails if it deals less than 1 damage on a given radius.
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« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2008, 06:31:35 AM »

I've been thinking about the actual strengths and here's what I have so far.

I'm not strictly following the facts, what fun would that be, I'm making educated guesses where I need to. It's finally coming together but figuring out the Galaxy Class's HP is going to be tough, we may have to go with what feels right through gameplay.

Here's my process, I try to get a total HP, I try to get a hull HP and then I can figure out a shield HP. If I can only get a total, then I base the ratio of hull to shield on other vessels with some adjustment.

Maneuvering Stats - Efficient hulls accelerate fast.
Turning Speed - low, low-medium, medium-high, high
Turning Acceleration - low, low-medium, medium-high, high
Acceleration +/- low, low-medium, medium-high, high
Warp Turning - low, low-medium, medium-high, high
Warp Acceleration +/- low, low-medium, medium, medium-high, high
Max Warp Factor - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, <10


Single arc Shield values:

Sovereign - Shields: 5000 HP, Hull: 2500 HP, Total: 7500 HP
- Phaser Type 10
- Torpedo Bay Quantum - fore - 5 burst/consecutive
- 2 Torpedo Bay Photon - fore - 5 burst/consecutive
- 2 Torpedo Bay Photon - aft - 5 burst/consecutive
- 2 Torpedo Bay Photon - fore - Single Shot
- 2 Torpedo Bay Photon - aft - Single Shot
-- 75 Quantum Torpedoes
-- 480 Photon Torpedoes
Max Warp Factor - 9.979
Warp Acceleration +/- medium-low
Warp Turning - medium
Turning Speed - low-medium
Turning Acceleration - medium
Acceleration +/- medium-high

Galaxy - Shields: 3700 HP, Hull: 1100 HP, Total: 4800 HP - 200 DP/s (3 s)
- Phaser Type 10
- Torpedo Bay Photon - fore - 5 burst/consecutive
- Torpedo Bay Photon - aft - 3 burst/consecutive
-- 275 Photon Torpedoes
Max Warp Factor - 9.6
Warp Acceleration +/- medium
Warp Turning - medium
Turning Speed - low-medium
Turning Acceleration - medium
Acceleration +/- medium

Nebula - Shields: 4000 HP, Hull: 1050 HP, Total: 5050 HP - 200 DP/s (3 s)
- Phasers Type 10
- Torpedo Bay Photon - fore - 3 consecutive
- 8 Torpedo Bay Photon - pod mounted - fore - 4 burst/consecutive
-- 1050 Photon Torpedoes
Max Warp Factor - 9.55
Warp Acceleration +/- medium
Warp Turning - medium
Turning Speed - low-medium
Turning Acceleration - medium
Acceleration +/- low

Prometheus - Shields: 5000, Hull: 2500, Total 7500
- Phaser Type 10
- 4 Torpedo Bay Photon - fore - 5 burst/consecutive
- Torpedo Bay Photon - aft - 5 burst/consecutive
- Torpedo Bay Quantum - fore - 5 burst/consecutive
-- 100 Quantum Torpedoes
-- 500 Photon Torpedoes
Max Warp Factor - 9.99
Warp Acceleration +/- medium
Warp Turning - medium
Turning Speed - medium-high
Turning Acceleration - high
Acceleration +/- high

Defiant - Shields: 700 HP, Hull: 1400 HP, Total: 2100 HP -  75 DP per volley, 6/s
- Phaser Type 10 Burst - fore - 4
- 4 Torpedo Bay Quantum - fore - Single Shot
- Torpedo Bay Photon - aft - Single Shot
- 2 Phaser Type 9 - dorsal - bow
-- 40 Quantum Torpedoes
-- 10 Photon Torpedoes
Max Warp Factor - 9.5
Warp Acceleration +/- medium-high
Warp Turning - medium-high
Turning Speed - medium-high
Turning Acceleration - high
Acceleration +/- high

Intrepid Class - Shields: 1600 HP, Hull: 900 HP, Total: 2500 HP
- Phaser Type 9
- 2 Torpedo Bay Photon - fore - Single Shot
- 2 Torpedo Bay Photon - aft - Single Shot
-- 40 Photon Torpedoes
Max Warp Factor - 9.975
Warp Acceleration +/- low-medium
Warp Turning - low-medium
Turning Speed - medium-high
Turning Acceleration - high
Acceleration +/- medium-high

Nova
==Description==
==Specs==
===Hull Stats===
* '''Shields:''' 145 per arc
* '''Hull:''' 250
===Weapon Stats===
* 6 Phaser Type 9
* 2 Torpedo Bay Photon - fore - Single Shot
* 1 Torpedo Bay Photon - aft - Single Shot
** 18 Photon Torpedoes
===Maneuvering Stats===
====Warp====
* '''Max Warp Factor:''' 8
* '''Warp Acceleration:''' +/- medium
* '''Warp Turning:''' medium
====Impulse====
* '''Turning Speed:''' medium-high
* '''Turning Acceleration:''' high
* '''Acceleration:''' +/- medium-high

==IMAGES==
===UNKNOWN AUTHOR===
[[Image:placeholder|thumb|250px|left|]]

Excelsior - Shields: 1500 HP, Hull: 750 HP, Total: 2250 HP
- Phaser Type 9
- 2 Torpedo Bay Photon - fore - Single Shot
- 2 Torpedo Bay Photon - aft - Single Shot
-- 40 Photon Torpedoes
Max Warp Factor - 9.65
Warp Acceleration +/- low-medium
Warp Turning - medium
Turning Speed - low-medium
Turning Acceleration - medium
Acceleration +/- medium-high

Constitution
==Specs==
===Hull Stats===
* '''Shields:''' 165 per arc
* '''Hull:''' 540
===Weapon Stats===
* 4 Phaser Type 9
* 2 Torpedo Bay Photon - fore - Single Shot
** 20 Photon Torpedoes
===Maneuvering Stats===
* '''Max Warp Factor:''' 8.5
* '''Warp Acceleration:''' +/- medium
* '''Warp Turning:''' medium
* '''Turning Speed:''' low-medium
* '''Turning Acceleration:''' medium
* '''Acceleration:''' +/- medium

==IMAGES==
===UNKNOWN AUTHOR===
[[Image:placeholder|thumb|250px|left|]]

Miranda Class - Shields: 180 HP, Hull: 540 HP, Total: 720 DP
- Phaser Type 9
- 2 Phaser Type 10 - fore
- 2 Phaser Type 10 - aft
- 2 Torpedo Bay Photon - fore - Single Shot
- 2 Torpedo Bay Photon - aft - Single Shot
-- 34 Photon Torpedoes
Max Warp Factor - 8.5
Warp Acceleration +/- medium
Warp Turning - medium
Turning Speed - low-medium
Turning Acceleration - medium
Acceleration +/- medium

Keldon - Shields: 1500 HP, Hull: 900 HP, Total 2400 HP - Primary: 240 DP/s, Secondary: 60 DP/s - Firing and Cool Down are equal - Max Fire Time = (2.6 s)
- Phaser Main - Bow
- 3 Torpedo Bay Photon - Bow - Single Shot
- 12 Phaser Secondary
Max Warp Factor - 9.5
Warp Acceleration +/- high
Warp Turning - medium
Turning Speed - medium
Turning Acceleration - medium-high
Acceleration +/- high

Galor - Shields: 1386 HP, Hull: 900 HP, Total 2286 HP - Primary: 240 DP/s, Secondary: 60 DP/s - Firing and Cool Down are equal - Max Fire Time = (2.6 s)
- Phaser Main - Bow
- 3 Torpedo Bay Photon - Bow - Single Shot
- 12 Phaser Secondary
Max Warp Factor - 8.5
Warp Acceleration +/- high
Warp Turning - medium
Turning Speed - low-medium
Turning Acceleration - medium-high
Acceleration +/- medium-high

Hideki  -  Shields: 56 HP, Hull: 169 HP, Total: 225 HP - 60 DP per shot, 3/s
- Phaser Secondary - Bow
Max Warp Factor - 6.8
Warp Acceleration +/- high
Warp Turning - low-medium
Turning Speed - high
Turning Acceleration - medium-high
Acceleration +/- medium-high

Neg'Var
==Specs==
===Hull Stats===
* '''Shields:''' 4700 per arc
* '''Hull:''' 3625

===Weapon Stats===
* 2 Pulse Disruptor Class 14 - fore
* 3 Pulse Disruptor Class 12 - fore
* 2 Pulse Disruptor Class 11 - fore
* Torpedo Bay Photon - Bow - 7 burst/consecutive
* Torpedo Bay Photon - Aft - 4 burst/consecutive
** 935 Photon Torpedoes
===Maneuvering Stats===
=====Warp=====
* '''Max Warp Factor:''' 9.983
* '''Warp Acceleration:''' +/- low
* '''Warp Turning:''' medium-high
=====Impulse=====
* '''Turning Speed:''' low-medium
* '''Turning Acceleration:''' medium
* '''Acceleration:''' +/- low-medium

==IMAGES==
===UNKNOWN AUTHOR===
[[Image:placeholder|thumb|250px|left|]]

Vor'Cha
==Specs==
===Hull Stats===
* '''Shields:''' 4005 per arc
* '''Hull:''' 1540
===Weapon Stats===
* Beam Disruptor Class 13 - Bow
* 2 Pulse Disruptor Class 12 - Bow
* Torpedo Bay Photon - aft - 4 burst/consecutive
** 200 Photon Torpedoes
===Maneuvering Stats===
=====Warp=====
* '''Max Warp Factor:''' 9.8
* '''Warp Acceleration:''' +/- low
* '''Warp Turning:''' medium-high
=====Impulse=====
* '''Turning Speed:''' medium
* '''Turning Acceleration:''' medium
* '''Acceleration:''' +/- medium

==IMAGES==
===UNKNOWN AUTHOR===
[[Image:placeholder|thumb|250px|left|]]

Bird of Prey - Shields: 162 HP, Hull: 198 HP, Total: 360 HP - 99 DP per volley, 5/s
- 2 Disruptor Class 11 Pulse - Port - Starboard
- 2 Torpedo Bay Photon - Bow - Aft - Single Shot
Max Warp Factor - 8.5
Warp Acceleration +/- low
Warp Turning - low
Turning Speed - high
Turning Acceleration - high
Acceleration +/- high

Dominion Fighter - Shields: 106 HP, Hull: 214 HP, Total: 320 HP - 65 DP per shot, 3/s
- Phased Polaron Weapon Light
- Torpedo Bay Ultritium Concussion Shells - Bow - Single Shot
-- 100 Ultritium Concussion Shells
Max Warp Factor - 7
Warp Acceleration +/- medium-high
Warp Turning - medium
Turning Speed - high
Turning Acceleration - high
Acceleration +/- high

D'Deridex -  Shields: 4200  HP, Hull: 1800 HP, Total: 6000 HP - 370 DP/s
- 13 Beam
- Torpedo Bay Plasma - Bow - 3000 DP
- Torpedo Bay Photon- Bow -  3 consecutive
- Torpedo Bay Photon- Aft - Single Shot
Max Warp Factor - 9.5
Warp Acceleration +/- medium-high
Warp Turning - high
Turning Speed - low
Turning Acceleration - low
Acceleration +/- low

Valdore - Shields: 3400, Hull: 1200, Total: 4600
- 4 Pulse Disruptors
- 4 Torpedo Bay Photon - Bow - Aft
Max Warp Factor - 9.98
Warp Acceleration +/- medium
Warp Turning - high
Turning Speed - low-medium
Turning Acceleration - medium
Acceleration +/- low-medium

K'Tinga - Shields: 720 HP, Hull: 540 HP, Total: 1260 HP - 200 DP/s(temp)
- Disruptor Bank Class 12 - Bow
- Torpedo Bay - Aft - Single Shot
Max Warp Factor - 8.7
Warp Acceleration +/- low
Warp Turning - medium-high
Turning Speed - medium
Turning Acceleration - medium-high
Acceleration +/- medium

Breen Ship - Shields: 500 HP, Hull: 900 HP, Total: 1400 HP
- 3 Pulse Weapons
- Energy Dissipater - Bow
Max Warp Factor - 9.8
Warp Acceleration +/- medium-high
Warp Turning - low-medium
Turning Speed - high
Turning Acceleration - medium
Acceleration +/- medium

DS9 Phaser - 400 DP/s
DS9 Torpedo (Call to Arms) - 160 DP
DS9 Torpedo (The Way of the Warrior) - 360 DP
Photon Torpedo - 75 DP
Quantum Torpedo - 200 DP
« Last Edit: April 22, 2008, 11:17:59 PM by Major Diarr » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2008, 09:19:22 AM »

the feature propoasal is okay, submit it Cheesy
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